Curse

Moloch Vein · Sep 09, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

So, I guess I've run out of things to talk about, and I'm bored. Thus I've decided to start a series of threads.

Each week on Tuesday night, I will post a thread about one elite skill that is generally meaningless. I'll state why it's meaningless, and I'll suggest a change.

I admit this is much inspired by that wonderful update where Izzy changed about 20(?) elite skills. I liked that change. Honestly. I don't like "grind-the-skills-into-the-ground" balancing. Nevertheless I'll try not to turn every skill into PvP Ursan Blessing.

I also would like to point out that I am not deluding myself into thinking a change will be made. These are only threads for discussion.

Here we go;

Skill Description:

[Palm Strike]
Palm Strike
Critical Strikes
Elite Touch Skill

Energy: 5
Activation: 3/4
Recharge: 10

Target touched foe takes 10...70 damage. This skill counts as an off-hand attack.

Why does it suck?

Ever since I saw this skill and capped this skill, I've wanted to use it for something. I mean, who doesn't want to "Palm Strike" someone once in a while?

I've tried, and I tried. I've yet to succeed to create anything in the least meaningful.

Apparently I'm not alone. I've never seen this incarnation of a skill used for anything. Ever.

It could not be made non-Elite, this would make building for A too easy. At the same time it's very underpowered. Damage isn't enough for only being damage. Damage is all it is. Chain building utility is marginal since you can't bring a meaningful Elite.

I propose a thorough, simple and beautiful workover:

[Palm Strike]
Palm Strike
Unlinked
Elite Skill

Energy: 5
Activation: -
Recharge: ?

Your next Melee Attack skill strikes twice but inflicts no base damage. (10 seconds)

This would make it a unique skill. The only way to induce "double-strikes" on non-daggers. It would make for class synergies since it'd be unlinked. I don't think there would be too much potential for abuse, though I can think of some issues.

Ideas? Comments?

zelgadissan · Sep 09, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Out of curiosity, how would you propose this to work on daggers? Say for example you did a dagger chain, paused after the offhand, did Palm Strike, then maybe [[Blades of Steel]? Three hits (double first hit, single second)? Four?

I don't think it should be called Palm Strike anymore if it's not a touch skill, but all in all your proposal would certainly be better than it is now. I approve.

legacyofkain85 · Sep 09, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

they should add a kd to it ,might be overpowered tho after since it can be folowed up by a dual atack

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

ever looked at wastrels collapse? Way worse sin elite. [wastrels collapse]

o man i was just about post that to,remebered it

NoXiFy · Sep 09, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

ever looked at wastrels collapse? Way worse sin elite. [wastrels collapse]

silavor · Sep 09, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Wastrel's collapse is so broken I don't think anyone can fix it.
As for your suggestion, I don't see how it would be any different besides dealing less damage. From a mathematical prospective, any sin with a decent investment in critical strikes will do between 70 and 90 damage from this skill. With your change, say a warrior uses it with some axe skill that hits for +40 damage (Executioner's strike, I think it was?). By hitting twice, it will deal 80 damage guaranteed but you lose out on any attack benefit your axe and strength might have provided.

Not to flame your suggestion or anything, but in general when you make a build take two skills to have the same effect a single skill had it's normally called nerfing, not buffing.

Greedy Gus · Sep 09, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Would be pretty amazing to hit a double final thrust. Cool suggestion

kvndoom · Sep 09, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Its reasoning for being an elite is because it's a lead-skip that does a large amount of armor-ignoring damage. Unfortunately someone forgot about [golden phoenix strike]. 10 second recharge is what kills this skill, especially with GPS at 8. For this to be elite-worthy and still balanced, the recharge needs to be dropped to 5, maybe even 4 seconds, and the damage reduced. Or make the damage type Blunt (don't guess your palm is very Slashing or Piercing) so that it's not armor-ignoring. It would still be inferior to [Moebius Strike], but perhaps not utterly useless.

You could give it some utility, such as a KD, but why waste an elite when you have [Shock]? For a very brief moment (maybe a millisecond), I thought it would be cool to have it make you shadow step to your foe and do some damage, but then my brain caught up and reminded me what teleporting has done to this once-great game for the last 2 years, and the idea went away. :-\

gerlin · Sep 09, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I have made a build with it and its rules

.
I only use it in AB because i don't find it imba enough for RA (sway-scythe ftw).
I think this skill is far from broken. A offhand attack that's undodgeable/blockable and deals 90 dmg(i use 16 crits always)? Although i agree with kvndoom that the recharge should be dropped to 8 with same damage, any less and the damage should drop too.

KoKoS · Sep 09, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

i think it's elite cuz u can use an off-hand attack without having to use lead attck... dunn0 though, i was never good on sins

Konig Des Todes · Sep 10, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

[Skull Crack] is a very similar skill to [Palm Strike] Imo, only difference is the adrenaline/energy cost and of course the recharge. I think a good change to Palm Strike would be at make it double strike and interrupt. Or have it interrupt and reduce the recharge. But not all three. Knockdown would make it overpowered, but interrupt would be rather useful (as aside from the 3 dazing skills, there are only 2 interrupt skills, 5 out of 110 skills to interrupt, why not make it 6).

So my suggestions are either:

1. Strike Twice and interrupt. No other change.
or
2. Reduce Recharge to 4 seconds and add interrupt.

Adding some damage and turning the damage type to Blunt would not be a bad ideas as well and could work with either of the above two suggestions.

Age · Sep 10, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

I would say that most Sin dagger elites are pretty useless look at Moebius Strike needs another dual attack.

There are a lot of others out there [100 blades] [life sheath].

Sniper22 · Sep 10, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

[Stone Sheath]

This skill is not even worthy of being a non-elite skill.

Um ya so suggestion, to make it more usable on non-assassins and stand out from dulled weapon, reduce damage output of hexed foes.

ALF71BE · Sep 10, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

WHAT A USELESS SKILL ON MY GW?!?

[healing hands].

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 10, 2008, 01:35 AM // 01:35

[signet of spirits] because it's a lesser version of [offering of spirit]

No reason to ever take Signet of Spirits.

draxynnic · Sep 10, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Its reasoning for being an elite is because it's a lead-skip that does a large amount of armor-ignoring damage. Unfortunately someone forgot about [golden phoenix strike]. 10 second recharge is what kills this skill, especially with GPS at 8. For this to be elite-worthy and still balanced, the recharge needs to be dropped to 5, maybe even 4 seconds, and the damage reduced. Or make the damage type Blunt (don't guess your palm is very Slashing or Piercing) so that it's not armor-ignoring. It would still be inferior to [Moebius Strike], but perhaps not utterly useless.

Agreed. Give it a shorter recharge so it can be better used as a lead-skip, and it might actually eclipse Mobius in some builds due to the bar compression effect - instead of requiring GPS and Mobius, you could just carry Palm Strike. It would also be more useful in situations where the enemy just dies too quickly for the GPS-dual attack-Mobius combination to work without leaving you waiting for GPS to recharge.

Idly, [Stone Sheath] can be quite useful as part of a team build - give as many party members [Mantra of Earth] as reasonably possible, and you can significantly reduce incoming damage as well as giving everyone energy whenever they get hit.

Sniper22 · Sep 10, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Idly, [Stone Sheath] can be quite useful as part of a team build - give as many party members [Mantra of Earth] as reasonably possible, and you can significantly reduce incoming damage as well as giving everyone energy whenever they get hit.

True, unfortunately that only works on attacks and not spells.

N1ghtstalker · Sep 10, 2008, 10:57 AM // 10:57

[quicksand]
anyone got a use for this?

Shadowhaze · Sep 10, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I actually made a build and used Palm Strike in it for a while.

Worked decent enough. But yeah, the recharge time can be annoying. I've seen some other sins using it recently, though I don't know what their build was.

Wetader · Sep 10, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I'm not a ranger by profession, but while checking wiki I found 2 skills that are oddly placed.

Quick Shot (ELITE)- shoots an arrow twice as fast. Cost 5 energy, 1 sec activation and 1 sec recharge.

Called Shot- shoots an arrow three times faster and can't be blocked. Cost 5 energy, no activation time, 3 sec recharge.

I think the normal skill is much over powered than the elite except for 3 sec recharge. Do you guys think this is right?

mastar of warrior · Sep 10, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

WHAT A USELESS SKILL ON MY GW?!?

[healing hands].

THAT MY FRIEND , IS AN INSULT TO ALL WAMMOS OF GW!

[healing hands][mending][frenzy][healing signet]
ftw!